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Friday, January 19, 2007

Streetcar higher math

Now that consultants for Cincinnati are studying how much it would cost to build a three or four-mile streetcar loop downtown, the focus is on the numbers, but which numbers matter most to you?

Advocates say the streetcar line can repopulate downtown and Over-the-Rhine. They say it will make the numbers work for developers who won't need to include as many parking spaces per unit of housing, and that buyers who then can do without a car or two can use those extra discretionary dollars to buy downtown.

Metro CEO Michael Setzer says you can't charge high fares for short streetcar trips so to justify subsided fares you got to put the lines where they deliver the biggest development bang for the buck.

But will developers who save on parking costs soon have to pay more for inner-city land? Portland's super-successful streetcars and light-rail sent housing and land costs soaring.

Cincinnati Councilman Chris Bortz says if streetcars help grow the numbers of higher-end market-rate housing, that will also give the city added resources to subsidize more affordable housing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it sound like there's a number in this streetcar mix to appeal to just about everyone?

Read more about it on the editorial page and join the conversation on this idea either here or on our public bulletin board.


9 Comments:

at 6:19 PM, January 19, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would just dearly love a way to easily get east to west in this county!
If you take the Metro as it's currently set up, in most cases you have to go downtown, make a connection, then come back north to get where you are going.
Cross County isn't even called Cross County anymore - it's finally been admitted it doesn't really do that.
It's pretty sad that the easiest way to get from the west side of town to Anderson or Batavia is via Kentucky!

 
at 7:33 PM, January 19, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sure, lets spend more public funds to subsidize the "old white money" on fourth and fifth street. We wasted $40 million to move a statue to prop up property values. Why not spend $35 million laying rail and $15 million with an annual subsidy for operating cost?

 
at 6:59 AM, January 21, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous said...

its too little too late for cincinnati. downtown is dead, it just doesn't know it yet. perhaps we should ask ourselves what our neighbors to the south in newport and covington have done to revitalize their city instead of this silly squabbling about the banks and subsidizing rich white guys and their sports stadiums.

when you do, you'll find they created livable spaces for moderate and middle income families. then they made it easy to get around and live.

you should visit boston sometime. there's a town you can live in without a car, actually, its probably difficult to afford a car in boston, but thats a different story. none the less, you can ride bus / streetcar / subway all over the place any time of the day with minimum inconvenience.

 
at 12:17 PM, January 22, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tony,

I think the editorial and this post are critical in expanding the streetcar discussion. One comment got me thinking:

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it sound like there's a number in this streetcar mix to appeal to just about everyone?"

In my opinion...

That's the beauty of good ideas that contribute to economic growth. There is very little donwside and everyone can benefit.

During the budget discussions we hit upon this argument. Attracting residents and growing the tax base is a key component to achieving long-term sustainability of a wide array of city services, particularly services for the most needy. A healthy city is a diverse city; diversity across a number of categories including economics.

High concentrations of any one economic sub-group does not generate the vibrancy that a city needs to incubate innovation, art, and culture. And, it can be argued that those three things are what make cities competetive, attractive, healthy, and livable.

I think a streetcar system would help our community reinvigorate the movement towards diverse density and all the benefits that follow.

Chris Bortz

 
at 7:51 PM, January 22, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Big Surprise. Chris Bortz is in favor of spending public money to subsidize his dad's (Neil) Town Peroperties Developments.

Chris Bortz should recuse himself from voting on this issue and other real estate development issues, do to conflict of financial interests.

 
at 11:10 AM, January 23, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous said...

The belief that the Cincinnati region is dependent on a thriving downtown is a legacy and fallacy of 1900's city planning and mismanagement.
We keep wasting public money on subsidizing a failing downtown area, when this money could be better invested in satellite business districts. Have your ever visited the Dallas area? They are successful with multiple business hubs. Why can't the Cincinnati Region be successful with multiple Blue Ash-like hubs too?

The problem is that our elected leaders and relatives are all financially invested in the Downtown Cincinnati area. They refuse to invest our money outside of their geographic areas of personal investment to the detriment of the entire region.

When Downtown Cincinnati is ripe for reinvestment the private sector will step forward and accomplish this redevelopment, even if it starts 10-50 years from today.

Let’s invest our money in satellite business districts that the private markets are proving to be successful.

 
at 11:53 AM, January 23, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Investment in Business Districts is a good thought.

Does anyone know the size of the economy of Blue Ash versus Downtown Cincinnati? I'm not interested in the statistic for the entire City of Cincinnati boundary, just the Downtown Cincinnati Hub, where we waste the most money.

 
at 2:14 PM, January 23, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Want to save downtown? A streetcar isnt the answer. Light rail from the 'burbs to downtown and the airport is. How many businesses have left the downtown area and are relocating in kenwood, blue ash etc because the commute is horrific and parking is more so?

 
at 8:03 PM, January 23, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous said...

By 2002 USA census data, the =>Sales, Shipments, and Revenues for the City of Cinti was $147 billion and Blue Ash was $42 billion. Can’t find stats for Downtown Cinti alone. Even including the entire City of Cincinnati geographically, Blue Ash’s economy is 28.5% the size of ALL of Cincinnati.

This demonstrates the obvious. You don’t need a thriving downtown Cinti for satellite business districts to prosper. If you took a poll, I’m sure most would prefer to live in or near Blue Ash than Downtown Cinti.

 
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