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Tuesday, October 24, 2006

A senseless killing or defense of property?

This morning's editorial board meeting was dominated by a discussion of the tragic death of 14-year-old Quavale Finnell. Police say the Central Fairmont Elementary School eighth-grader was shot by Bennie D. Hall Jr., 61, of Kennedy Heights after he caught Finnell driving away in his 1994 Ford Taurus. Hall had cranked the car and left it running to warm up while he went back into his house.

I first heard about this story on the drive to work this morning. I'm sad to say that my first reaction was that Finnell would be alive today had he not been trying to steal a car. I don't like that side of me -- the side that defaults to advocating a form of vigilantism when it comes to protecting home and property. And what in the world was a 14-year-old doing at 6 a.m. outside his own neighborhood anyway?

Since then, I've changed my mind.

I'm seeing Finnell's mother cloaked by her infant children when police told her her son was dead. She's lost a son; they've lost a brother. The community has lost someone who possibly could have been reformed.

We haven't figured out whether to write an editorial yet or what we would say if we wrote it. Perhaps you can help. Was Hall wrong to shoot Finnell? Should he have thought it through? Why was Finnell in that neighborhood that early in the morning? As an underage driver in a stolen vehicle, was he wielding a 2,000-pound lethal weapon? Did Hall possibly save the lives of others -- children at a bus stop, perhaps, or early-morning commuters?

Let's hear your comments?


20 Comments:

at 1:33 PM, October 24, 2006 Blogger Whiskey Tango Foxtrot said...

The only real senselessness in the whole debacle is the kid. What kind of mother has a child running around like that? Where is the hoodlum's father? I'm sure I'll soon hear that he was a good boy. Baloney, good boys don't have over a dozen arrests or convictions on their records. Good boys don't steal cars.

I hope the man who defended his property gets no-billed by the Grand Jury.

 
at 2:04 PM, October 24, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Byron, I don't know this individual or his family. From radio and TV reports he has been involved in crime in over 10 known incidents and has been warned by family members that he will end up in jail or dead if he didn't stop. If this background is true, please do not report his death as an innocent, one-time misjudgment; and that he did not deserve to lose his life.
He chose numerous times to behave poorly and put himself at risk.
What about the car owner who within seconds or a minute needed to decide his unplanned and unprovoked response. He is the true victim. He will live with the knowledge he took another's life. Who is the real victim?

 
at 2:20 PM, October 24, 2006 Blogger Monica said...

Mr. Hall was wrong to shoot and kill Quavalle Finnell. We have a system of juris prudence and if we are to remain a civilzed society than we are bound to the tenets of our system of justice. The punishment must be equal to the crime and death is not nor should it be the punishment for stealing a car. In fact in Ohio a person must demonstrate that he and or family nust be in imminent danger before lethal force can be used. I am appalled by people who lack both compassion and understandiing. People have condemned this young man and his mother based on very little information. The questions that must be answered are did this child deserve to die and what does it say about us if there are people who answer that question affirmatively?

 
at 2:27 PM, October 24, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had the same experince over th course of the day...I started thinking about the guy who blew away the neighborhood kid because he walked on his lawn...that is certainly the other extreme...but shooting anyone (I'm assuming there is no way, in the dark, hec ould see it was a kid)while driving away from you, is a bit much. Insurance is mandatory these
days...how much could he be losing? A deductible?

 
at 2:34 PM, October 24, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Obviously, they were both wrong.

"Police said Quavale, who had a juvenile record with 13 cases ranging from jaywalking to breaking and entering"

Thirteen arrests by age 14?! Here's a future criminal who was clearly going to cause a lot of misery and cost society a lot of money before his "career" ended one way or another. On the other hand, even police are not allowed to shoot fleeing suspects, much less some gun-happy civilian protecting a raggedy old Ford.

Not much to editorialize about here. Rather predictable consequences of showing contempt for the law (the boy) and Second Amendment gun freaks (the man). Would be nice to see the Rhymin' Reverends use this as a basis to call for better parenting, but I doubt that's what'll happen. Sad all around, I'd say.

 
at 3:22 PM, October 24, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

At first glance this is a tough call, and there are still details unknown to us in the general population. But unless the boy was driving the car at the owner, I don't think the shooting was justified. Without question the boy should have been at his own home instead of in another neighborhood. The news reports indicate the boy had a long rap sheet. And what was he thinking when he jumped in the car and took off? Some strong punishment was warranted. However, our society's laws do(or should)reserve the death penalty for truly heinous crimes. Car theft by itself, while still a crime, is not considered heinous.

As I said, it's too early to tell for sure. We can speculate all we want, but speculation does not serve justice without knowing all the facts of the situation.

 
at 4:37 PM, October 24, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guess I have to agree with the writer of the comment before me. I mean to say, look at that guy's car! I saw a picture of it, it wasn't exactly like the kid was getting away with a Lamborghini or anything. Shooting him was a senseless thing to do . . . stealing the car was also a senseless thing to do. Unfortunately for the man who killed the kid, his life was in no danger, and two senseless acts do not cancel each other out.

 
at 5:09 PM, October 24, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

First and foremost - I am heart sick that the young person died.

However....
Why was he not at home at 6am on a school day?
Why was he across town from home?
Why did he steal the car?
Why did he already have so many brushes with the law?

My husband and I are members of Citizens on Patrol, Cincinnati Problem Oriented Policing, and Court Watch. Unfortunately, the situation this young man found himself in is not uncommon in our city.

I also have a 15 year old son. At 6am Monday, he was getting ready for school (he catches the bus at 6:20). Before that he was home, in bed. Over the weekend, he spent time going to church, doing homework, taking his PSATs, and doing a quick check of a neighbor's house for them while they are gone on vacation.

 
at 6:13 PM, October 24, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, some folks ain't gonna like what I'm gonna say, but I gotta say it.

Thank you, Mr. Hall.

This punk was unruly, belligerent, disobedient, unlawful, uncontrollable, and nothing but a problem. Mr. Hall might have just saved countless women from rape, or countless others from having their property stolen, maybe even the lives of countless others if this punk decided to switch from burglary to robbery.

And he saved every taxpayer in Ohio countless thousands of dollars in feeding, housing, clothing, paroling and recapturing this punk for the next 50 years. That's one less jail cell that will need to be built.

Thank you, Mr. Hall.

 
at 8:00 PM, October 24, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a concealed carry permit holder I guess I'm a "2nd Amendment gun freak" as some whacko in this blog labeled me and those like me. I have one because my wife and I were attacked 8 years ago, and because a friend of mine was killed in a car jacking. When taking the CCW license training one learns that nobody has the right to use deadly force simply to protect property (unless they can prove that they had reason to fear losing their life), or to do a policeman's job. As a human I think I have felt all of the emotions those in this blog have expressed. I think Mr. Hall was wrong - the Taurus was not worth a death - his or Quavale's. Likewise, I'm tired of the mamby-pamby bleeding hearts in this country who want to protect criminals at the expense of the welfare of the majority. But most of all I'm upset at the pervasive system that allows incapable people to breed yearly and produce kids like Quavale to be on the streets to prey on us. Quavale's mama is going to wail that sweet young Quavale was treated unfairly - but she only needs to look in the mirror to see who's mostly responsible for his death. We have prisons full of violent criminals who had records like or worse than Quavale's at 14 and who cannot and will not be rehabilitated - yet many will be released to prey on us and our families again. We could cut heinous crime by 95% in the US if we put the worst of the worst to sleep, and if we'd wise up and start requiring future parents (yes us "rich" people Al Gore used to condemn too) to fulfill certain obligations before being allowed to have kids. Yes, licensing! After passing parenting courses in and graduating from high school, having and keeping a steady job, being drug free, having a monogamous lifestyle (and, hey, what about being married?), and not having a criminal record. Kids like Quavale are born into disadvantage because they have no role models at home in their dysfunctional environments; the parents don't properly raise their kids, our teachers and principals aren't allowed to intercede, and the revolving door at juvenile court allows kids to continue to roam the streets even after 10+ juvenile offenses. And we expect things to be better? Fat chance!

 
at 8:06 PM, October 24, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now we know the value of a young black kid's life - approximately the blue book value of a 1994 car.

God help us if this is open for debate.

Why isn't this man in jail - he murdered a 14 year old kid?

And just for a second, let's imagine this kid was a white kid from Elder High School having extreme family problems and acting out over and over.

The shooter would be in "held" in jail while prosecutors draft the "book" they're going to throw at him.

 
at 8:05 AM, October 25, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Although it's terrible to say, we all can't help but think it. In 5 years, would this headline be different? Would this 14 year old's crimes escalated and in turn, he himself kill an innocent? Probably.

Though shooting someone for stealing a car might seem over the top, we can't help but wonder what the next 5 years would bring...

AND, the mother is sooo distraught that she can't answer the door? Where in the hell was she when her son was running around and not in school?!?! Just because you CAN be a parent, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

 
at 9:15 AM, October 25, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

I read the "bleeding heart's responses" that the car owner did not have the right to take another person's life (because his car wasn't a luxury car). What an ingnorant comment. The value of one's possessions is different to each. However, this is not the issue.

The Main issue is the personal responsibility that the criminal assumed by performing a felony crime. He place himself at risk for uncertain consequences. He lost his life do to his actions.

 
at 6:51 PM, October 25, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hear Hear! I agree with the guy about the color of the kid's skin NOT BEING THE PROBLEM! Spare me the racist cowcrap, this kid's skin color means squat here.

The guy who carries the gun in the above post has it right...we should insist parents BE MARRIED, for starters, and that they be EDUCATED and ABLE TO SUPPORT their kids. If you can't afford your kids, stop making them!!! I don't care if you're green with freaking pink spots, start teaching your kids some morals! Teach them RIGHT from WRONG, MAKE them stay home, do their homework and go to bed at a reasonable hour, obey you, toe the line...LOVE them, give them HUGS, give them SUPPORT and ADVICE and SOLUTIONS to their problems, stop letting them run out in the street like animals! THIS BOY'S MAMA TREATED HER CHILD LIKE A DOG, LETTING HIM RUN THE STREETS!!! What kind of parent is that?

To try and make this a white/black thing is SO RACIST it makes me want to vomit. Black or white, if you have no respect for God, your fellow man, other people's things, or your own decency, and you end up shot for your decisions, DO NOT whine and try to play a "race card". Clean up your act instead.

I'm sorry this kid died. But his mother should go to jail for it, not the guy who protected his property. She's the one who really committed a crime.

 
at 9:22 AM, October 26, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Remember, to those who are condemning the mother, that it takes two individuals to conceive of a child...it's not just the fault of the mother simply because she is the one stuck raising him. There is a father out there somewhere that needs to be held accountable as well.

 
at 11:37 AM, October 26, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Simple. A habitual criminal is dead. He'd be alive if he were at home. He'd be alive if his momma took any responsibility for him. He and his 'family' are the only ones responsible. He got what he deserved. Let that be a lesson to the rest of the thugs that pollute this city.

 
at 7:32 PM, October 26, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

Excuse me. Shouldn't this be on the front page?

FELON ON PAYROLL
Blackwell also had problem worker
Tuesday, October 24, 2006
Joe Hallett
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH


GOP gubernatorial nominee J. Kenneth Blackwell, who has questioned the judgment of Democrat Ted Strickland for employing an aide who committed a misdemeanor, once had a felon on his payroll.

As state treasurer, Blackwell unknowingly hired a man with a long record of arrests and kept him on the payroll even after his office discovered the man's record and brought it to Blackwell's attention. Under Blackwell, who was treasurer from March 1994 to January 1999, Michael A. Toomer received two pay increases before leaving the treasurer's office in 2002 and landing in prison for the next four years.

Records obtained from the treasurer's office show that Toomer was hired Nov. 17, 1997, as a $10.32-per-hour mail clerk/ messenger. On his application, Toomer indicated no felony offenses, and a State Highway Patrol record check at that time turned up none.

But when the treasurer's office sought clearance for Toomer to have access to the Ohio Computer Center, a second check turned up numerous arrests. On Jan. 26, 1998, the Department of Public Safety denied access to Toomer, alias Glenn K. Williams.

Hand-written notes in the report showed that Toomer had been arrested in Florida for armed robbery in 1981, cocaine possession twice in 1991, and again in 1993. Records from Broward County, Fla., authorities show that the charges for armed robbery and the first incident of cocaine possession were dropped.

Toomer completed a drugtreatment program for the second 1991 cocaine possession charge and was placed on probation. In 1993, he was charged again with cocaine possession and his probation was extended for six months.

On Feb. 3, 1998, a week after learning of Toomer's criminal record, Beth Gilger, then the treasurer's director of human resources, wrote on office stationery that "we have enough to terminate" Toomer. At the time, and for the following six weeks, Toomer could have been fired without cause because he wasn't yet a member of the state employees union.

Blackwell said he opted not to fire Toomer on the recommendation of Gilger and the treasurer's office legal counsel. Blackwell said Toomer was an admitted drug addict who, after completing a Florida treatment program and passing treasurer's office drug tests, showed no signs of drug usage.

"He had met the drug screening, he was willing to undergo a pattern of drugscreening tests and he had a local church community that vouched for his turning his life around," Blackwell said.

Although the second background check turned up numerous arrests, Blackwell said he saw no documentation showing that Toomer actually had been convicted.

In a check of Toomer's file at the treasurer's office, The Dispatch found two records indicating that Toomer's probation had been extended after his Jan. 14, 1993, arrest for possessing cocaine.

Blackwell's successor as treasurer, Joseph T. Deters, now the Hamilton County prosecutor, said he did not know Toomer and received no information about his criminal record while he was treasurer.

"If I had been aware of it, I would have terminated him because we handled so much cash, and if somebody had demonstrated a problem with drugs the chances of falling back into them were too high," Deters said.

In May 2002, about three months after leaving the treasurer's office, Toomer was sentenced to four years in prison after pleading guilty to sexually abusing a girl, beginning in September 1994 when she was 7 and continuing until 2001.

Blackwell said he did not know Toomer was a child molester until yesterday. If he had had any indication that Toomer was abusing a child while an employee of the treasurer's office, Blackwell said, "He would have been history."

The revelation that Blackwell hired and kept a felon on the payroll comes as the GOP nominee intensifies his attack on Strickland. Blackwell has accused Strickland of using poor judgment by not investigating the record of a former top aide who had been convicted in 1994 of a fourthdegree misdemeanor publicindecency offense. Strickland denied the accusation, noting that the record of the offense had been expunged.

The Blackwell campaign this week is making "push poll" calls to Ohio voters, a deceptive method of using what appear to be legitimate surveys to spread a negative message about an opponent.

If recipients of such calls say they plan to vote for Strickland, a recorded voice is programmed to provide information about the former aide who "exposed himself" to children. A subsequent message details a vote Strickland cast in Congress on a resolution condemning sex between adults and children. Strickland, a psychologist, voted "present," saying he objected to a provision of the resolution that said sexually abused children could not have healthy relationships later in life.

jhallett@dispatch.com

 
at 10:36 AM, October 27, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think its a sign of the times, the residents of Cincinnati are sick of crime. Is taking the law into your own hands right? Of course its not.

Also on this day, someone who tried to rob a store got shot in the head by the store clerk. People are sick of the crime and being afraid.

 
at 1:10 PM, October 27, 2006 Anonymous Anonymous said...

I saw the picture in the paper today, taken at Finnell's memorial service. So many people saddened by his death....WHERE WERE THEY IN HIS LIFE?!?!?!

 
at 5:34 PM, October 15, 2007 Anonymous Anonymous said...

I drive a nice 2005 yellow 350z anniversary edition.

If someone tried to steal it, I would justifiably cap his ass.

My property comes before ur life if you are trying to steal what's rightfully mine.

 
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